neil: now we can safely say the nsa more than just kind of broke the law. try thousands of times. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. not just fine. don't take it for me. take it from despise himself. an internal audit out of no less than the national security agency it's often defe 200776 violations of established court orders regarding surveillance on americans, are targets in this country. with the nsa demands in a speech read what anyone else would call ridiculous. hundreds of cases of sposedly unintended interception of u.s. e-mail and phone calls and

typographical errors that prompted overly aggressive searches. this group for one thing, not responding to them or even reporting them is quite another. it's not only sloppy but illegal and now we come to find that the smartest intelligence surveillance court that is supposed to keep an eye on them to not even learn about some of these violations until months after the fact willing among constitutional which is kind of like locking the barn door after all the animals left. my friends, step back and ponder the sheer magnitude of whats going on. only a couple of months ago deputy attorney general praise the extensive safeguards put in place to make short spies to not n amok. remember well. every now and then there may be a mistake. the deputy ag must have the very different understanding of now and then. to me that means maybe once a twice. to him it means more like a thousand of 2000. either that was his definition then are you was lying.

it's hard to tell because no one talks and the statistics coming out. if you think a presidential commission that will take months to get up to speed is remotely going to address abuses that an spf of control, two words, did commission. that one is gathering dust. this one is just leaving our civil liberties in the dust. to a former nsa crypto mathematician and was a blogger who has been saying for the longest time i know it's more than just overkill. >> a key for having me. i have been saying for quite some time that the checks and balances that they claim they have, basically it's a joke. but fundamentally there is no way that any of the judges are the members of the house or senate intelligence committees can verify anything that they're being told by the nsa or fbi.

neil: they decide what they tell them, how they tell them, and even down to the presentation of when they get around to telling them. >> that is correct. they had to take them at their word and trust them. that is fundamentally about a new problem. the broker story were the accord had discovered that the fbi misled them. this is a longstanding problem that they never trieded to corrt neil: do you think it continues are now would be a revelation? to be fair, he keeps leaking this stuff out. the repetition of these abuses, even if you tell the nsa, and i've got to do this again, and

this harsh retorts. what you're doing is unconstitutional. >> the house and senate and courts have no way of verify what is really going on inside nsa or any of the other agencies. neil: what is scary about that, i'll defer to your expertise. you have an agency that is more less assuming the position, we're keeping you safe. just trust us. we have to trust was an accident. it was a typographical error, one of our operators punching in 202, the washington era area code. things like this happen. they're not delivered. >> easy, that's what i've been saying is the real problem with the nsa or any other agency of the government collecting all of this information.

when they do that it's in their data bases. the wrong base for the long terms in gets a lot of information by u.s. citizens. so, for example, using wild cards, what to call wild cards, if that type in 20 to start to get everybody in the 202 exchange in washington. that's like a massive collection. neil: then they say oops after words. i did not mean to do it. the damage is done. >> of right. neil: thank you for clarifying a lot of the stuff. were they going to discover next? katrina pearson, that's your biggest fear. >> well, absolutely. and what we do with the american people? to we continue to allow this intrusion and abuse? absolutely not. 2014 will be an astounding time for people to stand up and speak

out again these types of abuses because if you look hard recently representative justin a mosh proposed an amendment to the fund the specific portion ended narrowly failed because a bunch of stow's republicans voted with nancy pelosi of the issue and those people need to be held fully accountable. neil: in ignorance or a slip up or just screwing ofomething be illegal defense? >> the defense to you did not know something or was an error does not work with you break the law. the question isn't this. a problem is one of the actual damages. the people his privacy violated will say a mistake, but how you injured. the liability may be there, but the damages may not be in order to collect. neil: if you're one of these people caught up in the whole egypt verses washing ton area code, that one caught my

attention. this is so stupid to read something out when do. now one of the decade. it's supposed to be monitoring calls or in and out of egypt which has a foreign country cut of 20. instead someone attitude to that and they're getting in and out of washington d.c. that sounds like a dumb as move right there. >> that's what it sounds like. mannesmann had no idea it was to lower-level employees. neil: a bunch of technical shows. >> absolutely, and this is a problem we have. these entities doing things that our elected officials give them the authority to do. there are zero checks and balances. and the recourse the american people have is to hold those people that are giving this accountability in giving all this authority away accountable

to the american people. we will all be labeled some sort of threat at some point. look what they're doing to tea partier shrek now. we have to rein in the federal government and do it now before it's too late. >>e did have structures in place including this overseeing carter did not even know about eventually they got wind of a lot of this stuff months after. and onl then will you doing is not inclusive of the constitution. you better stop doing it. it already done it in the damage was done and a lot of innocent people were caught out in the shopping year. the president and others make around saying there is no intention of buying on americans in this country, but whether intentional or not, accidental or not, it is being done on a level that just for me.

neil: it does not sit right in the reality is, but is the ec's response, does that mean the date is destroyed? that's a good point. what if it isn't? >> the class action lawsuits out there right now for these sorts of privacy violations. we're suing the government. eric holder, the president, congress. in order to prevail you have to approve the you were in fact spine upon to have proof of it, and it's really hard to get because the information is classified. it's usually only in an era that its turnover and in your somehow damaged. katrina is right. the only way to make the stop is to have a lot of people bring lawsuits to have everyone stand up in class actions were limited new legislators in there and change policy. otherwise there is no recourse for individual citizens.

neil: thank you. i'm sure we will have other surprises and other ways too get you back here. this is like a gift that keeps giving. in the meantime thank you very much. neil: meanwhile, health care surprises' making all things look pretty weak. the newest today that could mean maybe this thing is on life support. then, apple is on fire. billionaires' are buyg in command a huge hollywood movies out. the guy who ran the company is here. at a dry cleaner, we replaced ople with a machine.

what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally. if you've got it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and man, you know how that feels. copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops.

stop taking spiriva and seek imdiate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? don't wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. neil: no, said this is a show where you can learn and learn. we have three big business stories. we will blitz through. you can make money either buying into it or selling off of it. you will see like you never have before. we will show you the glamorous vote quota and how that could hammer the stock or do just the opposite. blackberry hitting rock bottom.

this deal could be hitting the blacks to five black jacket and a and jackpot. after which talks of a former head of apple, how they could actually learn from apple which stocks issued by in the meantime, the president is trying to relax on summer vacation, but there's a lot distressed about the new health care surprises each day. the out-of-pocket expenses. the cap on out of pocket expensee is not delayed until of these 2015. oklahoma among other states, major aspect of this law. so far fewer options. an no go? a possible go? in today's surprise, finding out that the cost of health care navigators' over budget. to figure this mess out, former republican arkansas tim hutchinson said one thing is easy to figure out.

this law is in deep trouble right now. where do you think it's going to knock just outright kill it. today after? >> well, we have been around. this is the latest evidence as the chairman famously said, was heading for a train wreck. it's not as a help line for people calling in to find out what the qualify for. thousands and thousands of aggressive recruiters going after the recruit people to sign out. the pool from which there will be recruiting is about two-thirds the american people. 400% of the federal poverty line, these people qualify. as two-thirds the american people.

neil: even worse than that, the whole idea of having this health care restructuring in place was that it was streamline the process. 60,000 irs agents police in the project. thousands of these so-called navigator's business into the project. that's a lot between me and my dock. >> is certainly is. there's a lot of concern about how these navigators access information. what kind of privacy protections when they sign someone up there will have access to the most personal information including tax return. employers are con will be getting calls from these navigators say we will sign up selling so, an employee of years will they then be in violation of privacy protections? there's a lot to be worried about. not just the budget, but the aggressive nature but which they're going to be recruiting in arkansas, three-fourths of the people of arkansas would be eligible for these subsidies.

neil: you know what many in your party of trying to do. senator crews, taxes, and others who e trying to the attack is whole health ca line, funding, even if it meant and shutting down the government to do so. how you feel about that? >> shutting down the government is never good politics. it's never been received well by the american people. is never played well for the republican party in the end it can be successful in defunding obamacare. it sounds nice. it appeals to the base, but i don't think it's a successful, workable strategy. i don't take it as a help in the long run in overturning an appealing obamacare. neil: thank you very much. >> in queue. neil: out the help of barack obama over the top. rit now they're looking a mark on.

neil: it's time for cavuto clash. it self respecting journalist was a mind in a fight to the finished at match debate. they sure as hell did not intend to lose. lizzie borden macdonald. while there are gnashing, let's get them clashing. front and center, unions joking in dying fast. knocking down the latest attempt to smack down the michigan right to work offers to workers. another judge in indiana. the eu said thihis. to sort of elevating. but to you first.

>> so much show that the afl-cio has said the rear in a crisis. also move to a unionized restaurants. nonprofits. if he feels he has to reach out to unionized organizations like the sierra club and the naacp we are in a new world for unions neil: that would be like a double jeopardy. what to you think? >> having a death battle here. of course. neil: a big element of surprise. >> i'm happy to fight. you know that. but yes, they are in trouble. you'll wake up as a country and find out the workers don't have the right to organize in a more. the still wears off. is no mistaking which direction were going. by the way some of this needed to happen.

the unions did all sorts of nasty things and not too powerful. it's clear to me that the pendulum swing too far. neil: the pendulum always swis back. >> and another thing to a dead. the as been cut in half, but some of the unions are going out of their room and saying things like we don't like obamacare. we don't like what it's doing. neil: they're pretty strong. a very big difference. the building trades union. >> some of them are going off the reservation. neil: is time to talk solar power. the graphics. it's sort of like a rocket. the last president to try solar panels of the white house was jimmy carter before reagan probably have them all taken down.

>> it's different. there was no manufacturing scale , now many well organized -- neil: that look identical to what they did back it. >> but they aren't. more powerful. by the way, they're not the bleeding edge. neil: better late than never. >> the solar panel costs are coming down. he promptly knows this better than i do. the thing is -- neil: we need more public support. we're going to be giving our solar panels from china. >> of the seven. and the thing is they get a

third of their projects subsidized. astoria. neil: is that has something to do with ronald reagan? >> i feel i raised. >> i don't think there were doing anything. >> there were so few of them. whether now we should encourage them to be manufactured is they have fewer emissions. it's a good ninth reason for the white house to do it. >> the talks with congress. neil: no one bloodied. both out. find out who you want me. that what to tell me what is she

was ticking off the most the response, amazing. next, the one tweet, the one that stood out, the one the world talking about. the tweet that got us goi my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm jat long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com day and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

neil: full tank, but are you getting throttled? we asked the twitter followers what they were hot on. we got so many responses meaning

the team cavuto account is one of the fastest growing in all of cable news. it is, i was surprised. this quote says, quote, like to see you dig into gas prices against oil. gas is close to the 2008 price when oil was $147 a barrel. why? that's a very, very good question. back then, gas prices were over four bucks a gallon, but today with oil at 107 bucks a barrel, gas prices are at or around the historically high levels. is there a disconnect, or spilling the money. what's going on there, phil? >> i'm printing the money. the dollar is not worth what it was years ago and could take more dollars to buy this. that's a reason. the other reason, you know, a lot of times we look at gasoline prices, for years, the price of gasoline was tied not to the price of oil that we see every day in the newspaper, the west texas intrimmediate, but it's tied to oi in europe in recent

years because we couldn't get our oil to the refinders. we had to import oil from places like the middle east and things. that's sslightly changing. that relationship is changing. i think it's changing for the betterment i think we're starting to get to the point where if the price of oil goes up for a particular reason, we could have gasoline prices come back down, and that's going to be a nice disconnect for the consumers. neil: we hope that happens, but reality is oftentimes it does not breeding cynicism that there is a ball. is this about mericans who don't quite buy what you said? >> i hear that all the time. gasoline prices are up, saying, hey, every time prices go up, it's like crazy and takes foreverto come down. they are right. it usually happens, but what they don't realize is that more often than not when prices take off like a rocket, you know, the

retailers and wholesalers can barely keep up with raising the prices, and more than not, when you see a sharp spike in oil and goose lean, the margins for the wholesalers and retailers get squeezedo they lose money a lot of time on he way up. what they have to do is try to make that back, so when you see the oil prices come back down on the wholesale level, they are trying to make back the money they lost on the way up, and that's why it comes down slower as rockets and feathers is what they call it. neil: all right. in the meantime, something else and feathers is -- and i love you dearly, but if we have a $50 drop in the barrel price of oil, and virtually no drop in gas, i'm allowing for the dollar argument and the volatile times argument, but it can't make that much of a difference, can it? >> it can. neil: really? >> anotherthing, neil, yeah, we've seen more significant changes in the oil industry over the last five or ten years that we've seen in a long time, and

i'll tell you, as bad as the gasoline prices look on a relative basis, they are really not bad when you compare that to other things. when i'm getting at is i think the prices paid today are probably going to be on the high end of what you pay in the future. i think we're coming to the end of the era of high gasoline prices and producing more oil at home, less dependent on the middle east. i'll tell you a perfect example, neil is what'sgoing on in the gasoline market now. we see gasoline prices fall right now at a time when we are seeing all this turmoil in the middle east, we're seeing all of these problems. neil: a little counter intuitive, yeah. >> it is. the reas is because we're producing more oil at home and not as dependent on the middle east. neil: all right. i think you're afraid of getting nasty e-mails. >> i get them anyway. kneel noel thank you very much. forget ashton kutcher playing

steve jobs, but playing a convincing former apple ceo. in the news, today. >> if you keep heading down this path, i will not protect you. >> it's a ripoff. >> i'm going to sue you for every cent. >> you are your own worst enemy. >> the board is unanimous. steve will no longer be involved in this company. ♪ neil: huh, what is the real john skully think about the way he was portrayed? we'd ask him because he's here. ♪

neil: well, what a week for apple; right? the stock got buyer billionaire invest eres like acahn and soros adding to the fuel, and now hollywood with jobs, the movie, is out, and ashton kutcher, the is the iconic founder, steve

jobs himself, and guess who plays the other apple ceo who preceded steve? matthew, who makes a snappy and dapper john. good to have you with us, john. i 4 not seen the film yet so i go on the clips i see where you look like a visionary brought in to spruce up the marketing and help the company get on its feet, and then as a guy out to destroy its founder. which are you? >> well, i think the latter was prune not to be true. the movie shows i never did fire jobs. it was the board who got together to fire steve jobs, but i think the movie itself is kind of interesting. i went to see it last night, neil, and ashton kutcher did a really convincing job of capturing steve's mannerisms, looking like the young steve jobs, but i think his admiral

perchings was not enough to save a movie that's kind of loose on the facts, and portrays steve as this angry, driven man, and that's not how i remember him. he was passionate, giggled, warm, and yes, he had temper tantrums and things, but this is a movie that really didn't tell the story i remember, particularly, around steve. waz was portrayed in the movie as this jock guy who did whatever steve wanted and was more or less a technician with a soughterring iron. steve is one of the genius engineers in silicon valley. neil: oh, yeah, helped get the company, you know, with steve. by the way, waz, said upright he thought the movie was horrible. i mean, you had been saying that we were told at the time that jobs, genius he was and credited him for the acumen and know-how,

and modern day mike anglo, but he could be his own worst enemy. in other words, he could add to the problems even though he was created at looking at problems, but his sheer personality got in the way; is that right? >> well, steve had a wonderful ability to be able to look out ahead, see things people didn't see as obvious for many years later and connected dots, and then simplify it into products that had no compromise, so that was his genius. neil: but did you guys end up talking? i mean, i guess it givesup the portrayal that whatever happened in the end, you two bterly came apart. he thought you kicked him out, you say otherwise, and oters pointed out that was not the case, but before he died, had you guys reconciled, how do you describe it? >> you have to understand why two guys almost inseparable for three years have a celebrated

blowup? it goes back to the mission that we had been given by the board. we were meant to be partners. my job was to keep the cash flowing from the apple two because the appe three failed, and mac was not expected toe profit l for quite some years, so at within point when the mac just wasn't doing nearly as well as steve had hoped in 1985, he wanted to cut the price, move advertising away from the apple 2, and i said, steve, that's nuts, that's the only cash flow. that was the issue that really brought it to the head with steve and me and with the board. neil: let's fast forward to today because we have to look back in the past, wonner what happened, and why. do you think steve jobs, looking at the company today, would like what he sees today? now, the stock percolated again, but the wrap against the company is it's falling behind on the wow factor that others like samsung even talked it's going to have its own little smart watch coming out maybe ahead of apple, that it lost its edge,

and he would be angry? >> i don't think so. steve picked this team. this is a much more mature steve jobs running apple in the second tour. neil: you know the wrap against cook is that he's no jobs. that maybe steve made a mistake. >> and i don't think he ever prrsented himself as a steve jobs. i think what steve said, look, johnny ivy is the one who is going to be leading the creative direction for user experience and the taste of the design, and i think that the expectation that tim cook set for later this year and all of next year is they are going to have some really significant new products. neil: are they late to the game? i thin that's the wrap that apple used to be way ahead of others, but now talks that the next iphone, whatever it looks like, might look like samsung's offerings. >> wl, let me give you another point of view. neil: sure. >> what would it take to get apple to a $600 stock or more?

i think what it would take is that something, you know, more than just a refresh of the products. for example, i don't know whether they get a deal with china mobile. tim cook was there recently, but a deal with china mobile for a new line of iphones at a lower price point, which they badly needed for some time, now that would be a huge, you know, impact in terms of the growth opportunities for apple. on the wearable market, samsung is expected to introduce a wearable before apple, but apple has with their passbook software, put on a wearable watch device, they have 550 million credit cards out there, and they could -- neil: they could -- i understand, they could build off that, but let me ask you about all the investors taking keen interest in it. now carl icahn, a billion dollar plus degree, nd soros did less, but 64 million already planted. obviously, they think here's

value there, but when you've experienced that as a ceo, pepsi or at apple, and they, you know, investors come in, are they a distraction to appease them and spend more of your cash i think is the push icahn made with apple? do they distract you from your mission? >> sure. it's distracting. that's the reality. apple s a huge valuation out there. someone could put a billion dollars to work as investment in apple, and theflow is large enoughhey know they get the money october if they get an arbitrage, and i think that whether it's carl or george soros, they see some upside in apple's future, apple has been kind of dark with new products for a while, and i think they also see, hopefully, that maybe apple with, you know, increase its dividend or increase the buyback. neil: see what you're saying, john? i know you were brought in to add some just button-down, you

know, practical corporate gravity to a company free wheeling, the same thing eric did at google when it came to google, but the wrap agast apple today is it's far from the sort of entrepreneurial, free thinking, very innovative company it was, and it's gotten very corporate down to trying to appease shareholders and investors, and i see why. boost the dividend, put more of your free cash to work, and the kind of stuff that traditional companies do, but i don't know, maybe innovative,shoot from the hip companies tend not to care about. what do you think of that? >> well, i think your observation is a really important question, and i think that apple has this challenge that every time it's gross mar gyp goes down, you know, it's whacked on its multiple. neil: right, right. >> take amazon because jf is so creative, he gets a pass on

that, and he keeps inventing things to do. google is the same way, so i think that apple's got to get back on a growth game. i think buying stock back doesn't have much impact. maybe it placates certain investors, but the real thing is they got to do something bold whether it's a wearable, whether it's something with apple tv, or whether it's, you know, a low cost line of mac products to be sold into asia where all the growth is, they have todo something significant, and my expectation is -- because i listened, i have no inside, you know, track as to what they are really doing -- neil: really, you have no connection? still open apple stock? >> no, i own the stock, but i don't have an inside connection. i think i kind of have been around apple for 30 years so i know what the culture's like. my sense is they've got very good people, tim cook is an excellent ceo, and i think they

are going to be able to show the world that apple is alive and well, and they will have some, in my opinion, really great products in 2014. neil: if you don't mind me switching back to the pepsi days, and i heard about this, and the producers told me, and i couldn't even believe it. pepsi will have a product called pepsi flavored cheetos. i thought those are fine, but pepsi flavored cheetos? do you know anything about that? is there any control in your authority today to go after the executive who came up with that? >> well, if i were in charge, i probably would. i mean, that's one of the weirder ideas i've ever heard. you know, i'd say today, ou know, the momentum is what coke's advertising, and it's spectacular what they've done over the last few yeas, so i wish pepsi well, but i don't have any inside ack there as well.

neil: ha-ha, i dent think you would. didn't sound like something you would come up with. always a pleasure. come back again. great seeing you. >> thanks, neil. neil: all right. john sculley. who would play me? john candy is dead. i mean anyway, melissa meyer going vogue or rogue? why the magazine spread could cost yahoo lots of bread, or maybe just the opposite. too much or not enough glamour [ male announcer ] if you're taking multiple medications,

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♪ neil: okay. this is it. get pen and paper, time to make money. that's right, my friends, time for the single greatest six minutes in television and most enriching call business blitz,

three or four big things going on and see if they are worth putting money down. i have not seen todd inthe flesh in a long time. good to see you. okay, number one, yahoo, ceo doing a very pretty hot photo spread in vowing. yahoo is back in vogue, what do you think? >> i love it. i have it tell you why because she's building up the rand. fist of all, she's bril lament, obviously, has the looks, but here, she knows how to build a brand and build up, get the eyeballs to yahoo. yahoo is a great company, expanding, doing quite a bit in the media sector, but think for her, she's doing the right thing. i'd rather see her than eric from google. neil: if i guy did that on the couch, whatever that thing, show the couch thing, looks like it's -- >> like a castanza. neil: that do you want work with a guy? >> no way. nemo kneel --

neil: does she risk triviaizing the brand? >> exact opposite. as much as i respect him, that cheapened the brand. it makes yahoo all about her in this case. if your brand is you, whether you're a movie star or michelle obama or warren buffet where people pay money for you, the brand, that's a great idea, but i'm not going to invest in yahoo or use yahoo because the ceo is on the cover, and, in fact, i think this is an egotrip and looks like it's all about her rather than the company. >> no chance. look, she's hip, knows what she needed to do. listen, all -- >> that's great, but who cares. >> they are not anything without content, and you need eyes to generate the contact. they are doing that now. they need the users. >> and you're going to et that by looking at a spread of her in

"vue"? i don't think so. >> come on, she was on the cover of "business week" last week. >> who cares. look, i think she's an attractive woman who makes a great photo spread, but i think it's silly. neil: yeah, which is why i turned down the tiger beat. [laughter] you know. anyway, issue two, he botched blackberry's comeback but stands to make cash from selling it. the new ceo, thorston hines. the name sounds rich, could bank if someone buys the company, and that's even if he's ousted from the company. a payoff like this could be a lot for a sucssful company, but for blackberry? >> i think it's criminal. if i was a shareholder, i would be up in arms. look, since he took over -- neil: the agreements are in place everywhere. >> he took over in 2012. the stock price alone is down 30 #%. is blackberry anymore admired? no, it's become almost a joke now. it's an after thought.

for this guy to get this huge payout after all that peagain, i think it's criminal. neil: why do you care? >> why do you care how much he's paid. look, -- >> i said if he was a stockholder. i personally don't care. >> blackberry is the aol of the hand held devices. nobody waited in line for one. he worked up, and nobodimented the job. who would? the risks this man took, the reputation risks took is well worth the money. >> what reputational risks? >> oh, please. >> the stock in the company was a jock when he took over, and he made it more of a joke. >> everything you talk about because te produ stinks and the stock stinks, that's reputational risk. he didn't have a choice. look, the only way it would advance is if you put an apple sign on the back of it. neil: you're for big payouts wheer the ceo deserves it or not? >> it doesn't matter. board of directors approved it. neil: they did.

they did approve it. no one went into this blind. shareholders might be surprised, but it happened. >> how many of the real shareholders are sending back that approximatey. >> fire the board. >> yeah, i agree with you a hundred percent, in that, we're in agreement. neil: it's not world war iii, it's blackberry. bring it down. sony and microsoft learned the hard way. if you have the next big thing, hold out off on announcing it. video game lovers can't wait for the fall, video game sales are dropping. what are ey doing? waiting. maybe apple has it right by announcing a product and immediate release or close, and maybthat's why samsung is now playing app 8's game, jumping today by a smart watch next month before apple gets to announce its smart watc. if one comes to pass. to the timing tid for tat.

better or worse? >> you can wait, obviously. apple is brilliant at this, though, creating that velvet rope approach, the next big sexy proct and people wait all night. neil: they have to get lines; right? >> sony, all the consul games, these games are not compatible with each other as it is, but guess what's coming up, guys? the holiday season. every kid is begging mom, dad, give me the next big consul, the next big game. if they want to do it right, collude and make the games compatible with each other. actually, they will see revenues go through the roof. neil: i would love to see that. it's annoying getting stuff for kids. all right, gary, ho do you feel on the subject whether -- i don't know what the statute of limitations is on it. is it four weeks, eight weeks ahead? something that won't be ready r christmas whatever, how do you just tease people too much? >> well, one point, first of all, it's the fact that todd knows about all the

compatibility issues shows he's a lot more hip and young than i am. neil: including i. he's leading on; exactly, i thought the same thing. >> exactly. here's the bigger point. who cares? this is now not the hot industry anymore. it peaked in 2008 which is the year of their greatest sales growth. it's been declining ever since as far as the rate of growth. this is know, like, the tire industry, if you will. it doesn't really matter when they come a. they come out march, four weeks, a day behind, a week ahead. if this is an industry that some of the compans need to move on, and they need to find the next hot industry. that's my prediction. maybe i'm a fuddy-duddy. neil: it can backfire? >> there's a science to it. build up the marketing, the buzz. what's apple do? send and intern to a bar in the valley who accidently drops off the plans of the next best product. neil: oh, really? >> yes, they do. maybe they should do the same.

neil: now you're getting weird. stock's hit, but gold rose 60 bucks an ounce on news the fed would pull back. gary, the fed moves everything, but gold is moving, moving, moving. what do you think of it? >> i think, once again, the ultimate fear inde. it's been rising since july, better than anything else, even before the feds started hinting around or people hinted around that they were tapering. gold took off. i think that the deep down, people know this economy stinks, still worried about jobs, still worry about income, and reflected in the gold price. >> look at egypt, the growth that we actually got positive readings from china. that does help the metals, helps gold, silver, platinum, copper, all of them, but going forward, gary b.'s right, the uncertainty factor. that's why you go, a flight to the quality principle. neil: can't lose with gold. >> well, you will lose.

this is one of those investments that the average investor should really be dealing with the financial professional. this thing is up and down all yearlong. traders don't know how to trade it because it doesn't act the way that it should react. >> is there another alternative? silver, maybe it's the cheaper way to play it. i don't know. it seems thattings you know, when you close at 2,000 bucks, that's scary. >> exactly. in this case, neil, there's many different ways to play this fear. you can invest in the vix if you want the volatility index, but i'm with todd on this. people should stick to the nuts and bolts of trading and investing. i avoid gold, don't like it, never touch it. i can't figure it out from day-to-day. neil: this is why you are stars, on the cover of cosmo next month. i'm on the cover of "popular mechanics," have a wonderful weekend, tweet us, we want to

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despite all the political fights, is the government's health insurance model a failure? after three years of run-ups, we have yet another delay in starting the affordable care act. is it collapsing? will it have to be massively redone? we're talking whether obama care will be synonymous with the symbol of failure right here, right now. >> from the fox business headquarters it's the "tom sullivan show." >> thanks for joining us. here's what i have on the top of the stack. the government so far has missed four important major obama care deadlines. first, they missed the medicare cuts, then the employer mandate, th